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today we welcome dr. Diana Walsh

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Basilico - skeptic Oh in 2012 today's

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guest was at a high point in her career

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well respected professor of religious

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studies at the University of North

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Carolina Wilmington research Awards a

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successful book with Oxford University

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Press she had even gained tenure which

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as we all know is almost impossible to

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do these days and then Diana the

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universe winked at you didn't it a

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colleague noted that your account of a

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catholic saint and her encounter with an

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angel sounded a lot like a UFO story

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that led you to a UFO conference you met

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the amazing Chris Bledsoe who told you

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about his encounter with ETS that seemed

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more technological than biological next

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you're off to a UFO conference in

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California where you just happen to land

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a personal tour of your old hometown

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Silicon Valley with none other than

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Jacques valet so quite a journey and

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that really set you off on this six-year

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journey taking you from your academic

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religious conferences with our friend

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Jeff at Rice University to

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harvesting space junk from secret cached

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UFOs in the New Mexico desert and with

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Silicon Valley met experiencers who

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don't think twice about ordering a

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thousand dollar lunch from the Ritz and

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hopping on a private jet like an uber

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and ultimately back to your roots in the

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deepest walls of the library of the

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Vatican wow what a story what a book

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congratulations on American cosmic

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brilliant book and welcome to skeptical

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thank you so much for joining me

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absolutely here so I really just kind of

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skimmed the surface which would almost

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sound unbelievable to anyone who heard

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that introduction and think oh there's

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more but there's like a lot more tell

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people you're kind of opening line when

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someone bumps into you on the airplane

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and says tell me about American

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Kosmic what do you say right okay so

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people in my field of really to study

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this is kind of a well-known joke among

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us we never tell people what we do when

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we're on airplanes because you know they

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will inevitably think we're ministers or

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you know priests in the formation or

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something like that and want to know

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that type of stuff and and that's not

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what we do so we are an

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interdisciplinary field you know we're

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archaeologists sociologists historians

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and things like that and what we do is

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we don't really weigh in on the reality

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of beliefs of you know people believe in

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all kinds of things they believe in

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Vishnu they believe in Jesus they

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believe in you know Mohammed and you

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know things like that and we don't say

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yes or no to those what we do is we

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study the effects and practices and

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these kinds of things and so if somebody

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asked me about American cosmic frankly

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I'd have to figure out who they were and

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because that book has so many different

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levels to it that if they were like

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basically ufologists I told him about

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the crash site and I talked about the

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crash site if they were academics I'd

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say oh well what I'm doing is I'm

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basically using the UFO belief system as

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a case study that the you know

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infrastructure the changing

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infrastructure that's akin to the book

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of the Protestant Reformation you know

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that that the book actually changed our

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culture so technology changes culture it

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changes everything and religion is not

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exempt from that so I would focus on

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that and tell them about that if they

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were interested in kind of like The Da

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Vinci Code I tell them a little bit

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about you know the kind of more

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unbelievable aspects of the book which

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are nonetheless true and in my access to

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the secret archive because of my

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credentials and medium brother guy

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Consolmagno and he's the director of the

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Vatican Observatory which of course is

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it tells giant telescope area in castle

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Gandolfo but also one in Arizona and I

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just happen to ask him he was just here

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to give a lecture at my University and

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we were hanging out and I said hey you

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know I do archival work and I said do

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you have a space archive and he said

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well as a matter of fact anything that

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has to do with space from thousands of

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years ago comes to our place in Castle

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Gandolfo it doesn't go to the Vatican

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and so I just happened to sit there and

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I thought about and I thought I wonder

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if I could get a look in your archive

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and he said of course he said we have a

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place for scholars to stay you could

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stay for free and of course I had to

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take him up on that so so yeah I I went

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there and and honestly that that's the

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end of the book that the book was done

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by then so I didn't think that was the

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last chapter so when I got to that

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chapter I had I had to tell my editor

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that sorry there's one more chapter to

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this book that's already been taking too

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long to write and and then it got edited

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about oh I don't know a million times

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and a lot of stuff taking out so I

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should actually write the real story

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behind the American cosmic kind of thing

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but who knows it's already caused quite

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a bit of controversy and so knows that

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you know I had to get off social media

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and I have to kind of like I said my

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computer's all got hacked and like I

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have University police and we have tech

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police at our University and and friends

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of mine too who are academics it all

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happened to us at the same time same

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kinds of things so it's not a

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coincidence I don't know who or what so

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I'm just you know fixing my computer as

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I go and um you know I don't say

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anything in there that should get

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anybody in trouble basically what I'm

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doing is I'm just reporting on this new

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form of religiosity and to me it changed

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my life I mean I you know you should be

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as an academic the best thing you want

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is to be surprised by your research and

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like the book I wrote about purgatory

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which is a Catholic dogma you know I

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found out that people actually went to

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purgatory caves and that it was actually

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a physical kind of practice before it

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became an actual dogma of the church and

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that surprised me I didn't know that

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anybody really thought about it and so

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you know that's the kind of stuff we do

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as we uncover things now I was and still

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and being daily mind blown by the

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research I'm doing into this field for

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the very reasons of the you know the

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meta experience there's the people I met

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who like I say could you bridge jet I've

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seen this on a number of occasions and

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I've had that hate mail about it like

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who do you think you are you're not you

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know the da vinci code person and blah

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blah and I'm like I'm sorry but I'm not

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making it up this guy can do burr a jack

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I mean you know when I say uber I mean

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he just calls up and says I need to be

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here can you can you get me jet at the

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airport and they do and he goes and

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that's I'm not making that up that

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actually does happen so I know it sounds

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unbelievable but if you look at what

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I've written so far and you look at my

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CV nothing is out of the ordinary I'm a

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completely ordinary professor you know I

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move up the ranks I'm a full professor

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actually I'm not an assistant or

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associate I'm at the top I'm a chair of

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a department and like you said in one

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researcher Awards I've won grants and

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you know I'm a very typical boring

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professor and all of a sudden I come out

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with American cosmic I mean that's not

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because I wanted to do it it's because

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that's what presented itself to me and I

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felt it was my obligation to present it

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to to an audience

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honestly presented it to an audience

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that I thought would be academics mostly

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but it crossed over into the mainstream

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and people are fascinated so I've been

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pretty much doing on average four

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interviews a week let me just comment on

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that because you were just super

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welcoming about doing this interview and

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at this point I think you would reach

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interview fatigue you've done just

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phenomenal interviews I've listened to a

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half a dozen of your interviews in

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addition to reading the book and they're

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all great you're so just unpretentious

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and welcoming and I'd like to talk more

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about you just touched on this

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transformation folks this is just a

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super important book it's one of the

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most important books I think you could

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possibly read about the currents

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date of consciousness research UFO

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research the whole interplay with

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technology all the stuff you've hit on

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and it's also just this wonderful

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well-written story of this personal

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transformation that you've gone through

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that you let out a little bit and you in

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the book you hint that it's been deeper

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than that which I can only imagine I

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mean you were born in a born-again

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Christian kind of house in California

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you're not religious in that way anymore

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but you still attend Roman Catholic

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services and again I mention that

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because that is not always the case when

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you talk about a professor religious

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studies most those people I've come

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across are pretty a theistic when you

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really kind of get down to it so you go

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through this and then you go through

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this just amazing amazed that you're

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alluding to are literally the tip of the

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iceberg I mean the uber jet thing is so

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minor to the story because really the

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guys in the field showing you how to get

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aliens crashed chips from a 1947 craft

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and then they're meeting the people that

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he saved lives with because he's taken

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that and reverse engineered it into some

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biotech stuff and he's made a million

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billion dollars doing it and this is

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true you know so I don't know how you go

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through that without being transformed

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but it did transform you right it did

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okay so the thing is is and I thought

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and I hope that I could evade that at

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first I was very suspicious and to the

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point of being frightened really of a

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lot of the people that I met because

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they were not at a level that you know

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they're these were not people that I'd

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ever met before and there were some who

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were professors and who were studying

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this as well and I kind of bonded more

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with them like James in the book I

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bonded with James a lot more and he's a

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good friend of mine and so the other

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people that are you know way out there

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and doing the that space can I just

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interject something because the

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weirdness never stops

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yeah that's James right James is also an

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experiencer

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who had multiple experiences with ADT if

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you want to call it that for simple

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terms and his main driving ambition

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research project is to kind of

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counteract this ability that et has to

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seem to just bump into us in the

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extended consciousness realm wherever he

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wants and he wants to have greater

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control of that so even when you when

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00:11:36,700 --> 00:11:34,530
you blow past that which you should be

273
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:36,710
allowed to do because your story so huge

274
00:11:41,210 --> 00:11:39,210
there's a lot of depth there that just

275
00:11:42,890 --> 00:11:41,220
would blow people away totally change

276
00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:42,900
our paradigm change everything we think

277
00:11:47,740 --> 00:11:45,210
we know about this stuff so I'm sorry

278
00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:47,750
please continue with your transformation

279
00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:53,130
yeah so again so I put off the meeting I

280
00:11:57,830 --> 00:11:55,530
became a very good friend with

281
00:11:59,870 --> 00:11:57,840
Christopher Bledsoe and his family we

282
00:12:02,030 --> 00:11:59,880
actually happen to live about an hour

283
00:12:04,250 --> 00:12:02,040
and a half away and hit one of his kids

284
00:12:06,050 --> 00:12:04,260
went to my University and so we would

285
00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:06,060
see each other very often I would go to

286
00:12:10,310 --> 00:12:08,370
his house and bring my kids and he would

287
00:12:13,070 --> 00:12:10,320
come to my house and we eat dinner and

288
00:12:15,020 --> 00:12:13,080
stuff like that and he met several of

289
00:12:17,470 --> 00:12:15,030
the professors in my department and he

290
00:12:20,390 --> 00:12:17,480
would come and talk to my students and

291
00:12:24,610 --> 00:12:20,400
what a sweet nice man you know and what

292
00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:24,620
an incredibly hospitable family and so

293
00:12:31,340 --> 00:12:28,290
what happened was that he became

294
00:12:34,250 --> 00:12:31,350
surrounded by the meta experiencers and

295
00:12:36,140 --> 00:12:34,260
people that were affiliated with like

296
00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:36,150
government programs and that was

297
00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:37,530
something I didn't actually want to get

298
00:12:41,630 --> 00:12:39,330
into it all I was afraid of it frankly I

299
00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:41,640
was like I'm just a normal professor mom

300
00:12:46,630 --> 00:12:43,890
going about my business and you know I

301
00:12:50,210 --> 00:12:46,640
wasn't worried about Chris frankly and

302
00:12:53,990 --> 00:12:50,220
so I had to kind of step away and then I

303
00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:54,000
met Tyler and Tyler was a person who I

304
00:12:57,950 --> 00:12:56,610
was agreed to correspond with over email

305
00:13:00,530 --> 00:12:57,960
for about a year and a half before I

306
00:13:02,210 --> 00:13:00,540
ever met him and what I did meet him he

307
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:02,220
wanted to take me to New Mexico because

308
00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:05,010
he said that for he wanted to know what

309
00:13:11,180 --> 00:13:09,090
what I knew about consciousness and the

310
00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:11,190
religious experience and mysticism and

311
00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:13,170
he said you don't believe in the

312
00:13:17,330 --> 00:13:15,600
physical aspects of the phenomenon but

313
00:13:20,270 --> 00:13:17,340
I'm going to show you the physical

314
00:13:22,639 --> 00:13:20,280
aspects and I thought hmm I'm not sure I

315
00:13:26,619 --> 00:13:22,649
want to know about that but he kind

316
00:13:29,989 --> 00:13:26,629
assisted and then I met him in Atlanta

317
00:13:33,019 --> 00:13:29,999
and one of our conferences the American

318
00:13:35,389 --> 00:13:33,029
Academy of religion and I I asked Jeff

319
00:13:37,579 --> 00:13:35,399
who is a friend of mine and an

320
00:13:40,460 --> 00:13:37,589
academic at Rice University and he has

321
00:13:44,449 --> 00:13:40,470
an amazing body of work and I asked him

322
00:13:46,220 --> 00:13:44,459
to meet him with me and so that was

323
00:13:48,410 --> 00:13:46,230
funny because here's you know here we

324
00:13:50,389 --> 00:13:48,420
are at this giant conference of

325
00:13:52,999 --> 00:13:50,399
religious studies scholars oh they're

326
00:13:54,799 --> 00:13:53,009
all like wearing black you know how you

327
00:13:57,169 --> 00:13:54,809
the scholars you know they're like

328
00:13:59,269 --> 00:13:57,179
shuffling around and like looking for

329
00:14:02,600 --> 00:13:59,279
food and tables and everything and in

330
00:14:05,359 --> 00:14:02,610
comes this guy completely cool wearing

331
00:14:07,910 --> 00:14:05,369
Gucci you know and I immediately knew

332
00:14:10,429 --> 00:14:07,920
that was Tyler I was like okay this is

333
00:14:13,220 --> 00:14:10,439
not a scholar of religion and he comes

334
00:14:16,759 --> 00:14:13,230
in and we introduce each other he looks

335
00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:16,769
around me says we can't eat here he said

336
00:14:24,710 --> 00:14:19,170
let's go to my hotel the ritz and so

337
00:14:26,179 --> 00:14:24,720
Jeff and I said sure you know and so he

338
00:14:28,819 --> 00:14:26,189
just phoned and he said hey I need a

339
00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:28,829
table for three and when we got there it

340
00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:31,050
was just like he was incredibly

341
00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:33,600
charismatic I had told Jeff to I had

342
00:14:39,769 --> 00:14:37,290
said don't give in to his charisma like

343
00:14:41,900 --> 00:14:39,779
you might you know he might and Jeff

344
00:14:44,419 --> 00:14:41,910
completely did by the end of the lunch

345
00:14:46,309 --> 00:14:44,429
Jeff was inviting one to his house in

346
00:14:48,739 --> 00:14:46,319
Houston meeting his wife and everything

347
00:14:50,379 --> 00:14:48,749
and I was like what are you doing like

348
00:14:53,329 --> 00:14:50,389
you know you need to be more suspicious

349
00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:53,339
so he again Kylie reiterated his

350
00:14:59,960 --> 00:14:56,850
invitation to go to the quote-unquote

351
00:15:03,110 --> 00:14:59,970
alleged crash site of these artifacts in

352
00:15:05,900 --> 00:15:03,120
New Mexico and I was not going alone

353
00:15:07,819 --> 00:15:05,910
and so I said to Jeff why don't you come

354
00:15:09,650 --> 00:15:07,829
with me and Jeff was like that's a

355
00:15:12,259 --> 00:15:09,660
little outside of my comfort zone and I

356
00:15:14,210 --> 00:15:12,269
said I know and so then I decided to ask

357
00:15:18,019 --> 00:15:14,220
James the scientists and James of course

358
00:15:20,650 --> 00:15:18,029
was all over it so James went with me we

359
00:15:22,789 --> 00:15:20,660
had to wear a blindfold because it was

360
00:15:26,389 --> 00:15:22,799
it's a place that can't be known

361
00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:26,399
apparently and there are apparently like

362
00:15:32,210 --> 00:15:28,730
seven crash sites that happened in that

363
00:15:33,860 --> 00:15:32,220
time period now remember I'm speaking as

364
00:15:34,740 --> 00:15:33,870
a scholar of religion so I don't

365
00:15:37,389 --> 00:15:34,750
actually

366
00:15:40,060 --> 00:15:37,399
believe or disbelieve that there are

367
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:40,070
actual crash sites of UFOs what I'm

368
00:15:46,210 --> 00:15:42,800
doing is I'm going to document this

369
00:15:48,190 --> 00:15:46,220
extremely elite group of people who

370
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:48,200
believe that they're getting these

371
00:15:52,740 --> 00:15:50,330
artifacts and their engineering them

372
00:15:56,949 --> 00:15:52,750
into biotechnology back to the idea the

373
00:15:59,500 --> 00:15:56,959
transformation what I picked up on and I

374
00:16:03,460 --> 00:15:59,510
totally understand it but only from a

375
00:16:07,389 --> 00:16:03,470
person who is really uniquely open to

376
00:16:08,259 --> 00:16:07,399
following the data in a way that you

377
00:16:10,990 --> 00:16:08,269
don't care if it makes you uncomfortable

378
00:16:12,940 --> 00:16:11,000
you did say you were cautious about hey

379
00:16:15,430 --> 00:16:12,950
I'm tenured so maybe I can do this you

380
00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:15,440
weren't like totally foolish about it

381
00:16:20,259 --> 00:16:18,290
but you just kept following and

382
00:16:23,259 --> 00:16:20,269
following the data in a way that most

383
00:16:24,940 --> 00:16:23,269
people just don't do so that first step

384
00:16:27,430 --> 00:16:24,950
is interesting you know that first step

385
00:16:30,190 --> 00:16:27,440
is like somebody says Wow to handle that

386
00:16:32,590 --> 00:16:30,200
that sounds your angel story sounds a

387
00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:32,600
lot like a UFO story and you dig into it

388
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:35,510
you go yeah it does let me go to a UFO

389
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:37,370
conference which is you know pretty out

390
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:40,130
there for people in your position but

391
00:16:44,350 --> 00:16:42,410
then you do and then you take the next

392
00:16:48,069 --> 00:16:44,360
step in the next step in the next step

393
00:16:50,829 --> 00:16:48,079
is that in your history so I guess what

394
00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:50,839
I've been interested in since I was 11

395
00:16:56,620 --> 00:16:53,570
so I'm not the kind of person who is

396
00:16:58,630 --> 00:16:56,630
going to follow the you know the kind of

397
00:17:02,019 --> 00:16:58,640
theory about it I'm gonna I'm gonna look

398
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:02,029
at it and I have actually thought a lot

399
00:17:06,790 --> 00:17:03,770
about their religions I studied so like

400
00:17:09,460 --> 00:17:06,800
Zen Buddhism I credit with getting me a

401
00:17:11,260 --> 00:17:09,470
good grades in math and calculus because

402
00:17:12,939 --> 00:17:11,270
I'm serious because you know it taught

403
00:17:14,429 --> 00:17:12,949
me how to actually look at something

404
00:17:18,250 --> 00:17:14,439
without

405
00:17:19,809 --> 00:17:18,260
frameworks you know so if you if you

406
00:17:21,579 --> 00:17:19,819
actually utilize some of the techniques

407
00:17:22,990 --> 00:17:21,589
that religious traditions have taught us

408
00:17:25,689 --> 00:17:23,000
you know they've been around for a long

409
00:17:28,810 --> 00:17:25,699
time and that they can actually teach us

410
00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:28,820
things and so I have learned those

411
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:31,520
techniques and that's helped me in my

412
00:17:36,460 --> 00:17:33,890
research one of the things that came

413
00:17:38,530 --> 00:17:36,470
through I couldn't think of it any other

414
00:17:41,620 --> 00:17:38,540
way than this idea of breakaway

415
00:17:44,340 --> 00:17:41,630
civilization kept popping up breakaway

416
00:17:48,030 --> 00:17:44,350
academia where there is this

417
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:48,040
Fight Club college they know stuff

418
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:51,010
nobody else knows I think it extends

419
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:53,170
into politics I think it extends into

420
00:17:58,440 --> 00:17:56,050
technology as you document is that what

421
00:18:00,510 --> 00:17:58,450
you're documenting here is that this is

422
00:18:03,210 --> 00:18:00,520
that one of the stories is there the

423
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:03,220
distance between where these folks are

424
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:05,170
that you're talking about in the book

425
00:18:11,370 --> 00:18:07,930
and where the rest of us are and and

426
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:11,380
even us being like we're kind of reading

427
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:13,690
American cosmic we're in the minority

428
00:18:17,250 --> 00:18:15,490
anyway you know we're in this tiny

429
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:17,260
little tribe of community that's willing

430
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:19,090
to accept what you're saying what about

431
00:18:23,580 --> 00:18:21,250
the rest of the people have we reached

432
00:18:28,490 --> 00:18:23,590
that breakaway civilization kind of

433
00:18:32,070 --> 00:18:28,500
point okay I know the theory okay and

434
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:32,080
from my perspective the people that I

435
00:18:37,470 --> 00:18:35,770
interacted with were now this is where

436
00:18:39,150 --> 00:18:37,480
it gets really weird I know that I you

437
00:18:41,250 --> 00:18:39,160
know it's already weird enough but this

438
00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:41,260
is where it gets really weird it and

439
00:18:46,590 --> 00:18:45,130
this is where I think that at the

440
00:18:49,350 --> 00:18:46,600
Vatican when we went to the Vatican

441
00:18:51,630 --> 00:18:49,360
Tyler and I we learned a lot and we

442
00:18:54,090 --> 00:18:51,640
learned a lot because he said what

443
00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:54,100
should we do and I said the only thing

444
00:19:00,090 --> 00:18:55,930
we should do is keep quiet and listen

445
00:19:04,590 --> 00:19:00,100
that's all we do and that's how we learn

446
00:19:08,550 --> 00:19:04,600
and so we went and we met people that

447
00:19:10,950 --> 00:19:08,560
were the people we should meet and what

448
00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:10,960
I learned was that let's theoretically

449
00:19:15,090 --> 00:19:12,960
suggest there's this breakaway

450
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:15,100
civilization within our within our

451
00:19:21,330 --> 00:19:18,490
species okay and they are at the

452
00:19:22,980 --> 00:19:21,340
forefront of discovery and by the way I

453
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:22,990
don't know if you know about this author

454
00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:25,930
Ted Chiang his book was the basis for

455
00:19:31,470 --> 00:19:28,330
the movie called arrival which is a

456
00:19:34,110 --> 00:19:31,480
great movie about the phenomenon and he

457
00:19:35,790 --> 00:19:34,120
wrote a very very short story in nature

458
00:19:38,070 --> 00:19:35,800
about 20 years ago called

459
00:19:40,020 --> 00:19:38,080
picking up the breadcrumbs and it's

460
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:40,030
basically about the breakaway

461
00:19:46,980 --> 00:19:44,530
civilization but about scientists who

462
00:19:50,570 --> 00:19:46,990
hack into their own bodies and become

463
00:19:54,690 --> 00:19:50,580
super humans and are so far removed from

464
00:19:57,180 --> 00:19:54,700
humans that we have to just study them

465
00:19:58,109 --> 00:19:57,190
but just let me be clear on this because

466
00:19:59,999 --> 00:19:58,119
some people think

467
00:20:01,709 --> 00:20:00,009
breakaway civilization and they take it

468
00:20:03,899 --> 00:20:01,719
in a whole other direction in kind of a

469
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:03,909
sci-fi age direction which may be the

470
00:20:07,169 --> 00:20:06,369
future reality but what I thought was

471
00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:07,179
amazing

472
00:20:14,689 --> 00:20:11,129
about American cosmic is that's my

473
00:20:18,299 --> 00:20:14,699
literal read of your book not

474
00:20:20,729 --> 00:20:18,309
extrapolating it's just your chronicling

475
00:20:24,839 --> 00:20:20,739
a breakaway civilization you're

476
00:20:27,749 --> 00:20:24,849
chronicling an academia that is you know

477
00:20:30,809 --> 00:20:27,759
there's the people who know and the

478
00:20:32,819 --> 00:20:30,819
people who don't and James's passed a

479
00:20:36,239 --> 00:20:32,829
card you don't like out of a movie and

480
00:20:38,219 --> 00:20:36,249
says call us and then the kind of men in

481
00:20:40,739 --> 00:20:38,229
blackish not real men in blackish but

482
00:20:42,569 --> 00:20:40,749
guys who just know stuff say okay you're

483
00:20:44,639 --> 00:20:42,579
invited in the invisible college and

484
00:20:46,649 --> 00:20:44,649
it's real and you've been there and

485
00:20:48,899 --> 00:20:46,659
you've seen the The Fight Club kind of

486
00:20:51,059 --> 00:20:48,909
thing the secrecy it's a whole different

487
00:20:53,039 --> 00:20:51,069
world and again this is what you're

488
00:20:55,979 --> 00:20:53,049
documenting in the book and then when

489
00:20:58,739 --> 00:20:55,989
you go and meet Tyler he is in a

490
00:21:01,829 --> 00:20:58,749
different world not just because he

491
00:21:05,549 --> 00:21:01,839
Hoover's planes but because he just

492
00:21:07,439 --> 00:21:05,559
knows stuff that is way beyond what

493
00:21:09,689 --> 00:21:07,449
other people know or would ever be

494
00:21:12,599 --> 00:21:09,699
willing to accept will ever make it on

495
00:21:15,809 --> 00:21:12,609
the news again I'm emphasizing the point

496
00:21:17,819 --> 00:21:15,819
maybe too much Diana you're documenting

497
00:21:20,929 --> 00:21:17,829
a breakaway civilization it's not the

498
00:21:24,829 --> 00:21:20,939
sci-fi one but aren't we already there

499
00:21:27,929 --> 00:21:24,839
okay I hear what you're saying and um I

500
00:21:31,469 --> 00:21:27,939
didn't know I was doing that I just was

501
00:21:33,689 --> 00:21:31,479
amazed by what I was discovering and the

502
00:21:35,279 --> 00:21:33,699
things that were happening even with

503
00:21:38,489 --> 00:21:35,289
Jacques Jacques Vallee

504
00:21:41,549 --> 00:21:38,499
you know his trust in me he's got a

505
00:21:43,469 --> 00:21:41,559
whole library of and archives of

506
00:21:46,379 --> 00:21:43,479
information and I'm a one of two people

507
00:21:49,379 --> 00:21:46,389
who have access it for ten years and so

508
00:21:52,289 --> 00:21:49,389
I was being given a lot of access which

509
00:21:54,839 --> 00:21:52,299
I didn't understand why well now I

510
00:21:57,449 --> 00:21:54,849
understand a little bit more but still

511
00:22:00,059 --> 00:21:57,459
don't know the full story nobody knows

512
00:22:01,799 --> 00:22:00,069
the full story here Alex even but that's

513
00:22:03,269 --> 00:22:01,809
why it's not an invisible College

514
00:22:06,500 --> 00:22:03,279
anymore because at least they used to

515
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:09,170
I want to convey the tragedy of this for

516
00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:12,090
these people take Tyler I wanted to

517
00:22:16,370 --> 00:22:14,370
convey that place in the in the story

518
00:22:17,900 --> 00:22:16,380
where he sees you know Judy Resnik you

519
00:22:20,090 --> 00:22:17,910
know in the whole situation of the

520
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:20,100
Challenger blowing up what I want to

521
00:22:24,980 --> 00:22:22,650
show is that this this guy lead to

522
00:22:27,650 --> 00:22:24,990
tragic life I mean hey it's all cool he

523
00:22:28,490 --> 00:22:27,660
can you know order this uber and he's

524
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:28,500
really awesome

525
00:22:34,220 --> 00:22:30,930
he wears Gucci you know and this kind of

526
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:34,230
thing but he's not a happy person and he

527
00:22:38,300 --> 00:22:35,730
you know the things that he knows it

528
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:38,310
drives him crazy he doesn't know how he

529
00:22:42,410 --> 00:22:40,050
knows these things don't you you know

530
00:22:45,530 --> 00:22:42,420
I'm glad I'm not Tyler I'm glad I had

531
00:22:48,380 --> 00:22:45,540
this kind of more ordinary life so the

532
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:48,390
the kind of in effect I don't know even

533
00:22:53,330 --> 00:22:50,730
know if I ever want to get back into

534
00:22:57,650 --> 00:22:53,340
this thing again because of the pain is

535
00:22:59,720 --> 00:22:57,660
suffering of that group and that when

536
00:23:03,440 --> 00:22:59,730
you bring it out look what happens to

537
00:23:05,300 --> 00:23:03,450
you you know you get targeted as a crazy

538
00:23:08,270 --> 00:23:05,310
person and this and that and so you know

539
00:23:11,390 --> 00:23:08,280
who wants that and so you know in and it

540
00:23:14,090 --> 00:23:11,400
stops academics from actually trying to

541
00:23:16,810 --> 00:23:14,100
study it because once they do they get

542
00:23:18,890 --> 00:23:16,820
ridiculed and you know put you know

543
00:23:23,300 --> 00:23:18,900
things like that happened to me things

544
00:23:27,050 --> 00:23:23,310
very very bad that I don't actually want

545
00:23:29,060 --> 00:23:27,060
to have in my my reality and you know it

546
00:23:31,790 --> 00:23:29,070
sounds glamorous and everything that

547
00:23:34,970 --> 00:23:31,800
those those wives but they're kings with

548
00:23:38,660 --> 00:23:34,980
pain and suffering and any constant

549
00:23:42,620 --> 00:23:38,670
anxiety so I mean does that kind of give

550
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:42,630
an indication of its it's out there yeah

551
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:44,730
and maybe somebody will take the banner

552
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:47,610
and go and do the next American cosmic

553
00:23:53,300 --> 00:23:50,490
two or something like that but it most

554
00:23:55,910 --> 00:23:53,310
likely will not be me because I've been

555
00:23:59,060 --> 00:23:55,920
burned by it I mean it hurt me the

556
00:24:01,070 --> 00:23:59,070
realizations is that you see are amazing

557
00:24:03,470 --> 00:24:01,080
and you'll never be the same and maybe

558
00:24:06,740 --> 00:24:03,480
that's what life is really about is to

559
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:06,750
open up and see that you know not just

560
00:24:13,250 --> 00:24:08,610
the amazingness of it but also the pain

561
00:24:14,900 --> 00:24:13,260
is suffering of it I saw a lot and I

562
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:14,910
just kind of want to go back into my

563
00:24:19,250 --> 00:24:17,730
cave again for a while I do do the

564
00:24:21,110 --> 00:24:19,260
interviews because my

565
00:24:25,010 --> 00:24:21,120
book just came out people want to know

566
00:24:26,660 --> 00:24:25,020
about it and I I do like the book I mean

567
00:24:28,670 --> 00:24:26,670
I've read it a couple times now you know

568
00:24:30,770 --> 00:24:28,680
you read their books and by the time

569
00:24:32,180 --> 00:24:30,780
academics by the time we've read our

570
00:24:34,940 --> 00:24:32,190
books a couple times or sick of our

571
00:24:36,830 --> 00:24:34,950
books I actually still like my book when

572
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:36,840
I read it I go yeah you know I remember

573
00:24:42,020 --> 00:24:39,570
that experience these are experiences I

574
00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:42,030
had these aren't theoretical kinds of

575
00:24:47,020 --> 00:24:44,370
things you know these are like I went

576
00:24:50,390 --> 00:24:47,030
through all these experiences I retain

577
00:24:54,530 --> 00:24:50,400
excellent relationships with James and

578
00:25:00,230 --> 00:24:54,540
Jacques Vallee and Jeff crippled Whitley

579
00:25:03,740 --> 00:25:00,240
Strieber you know and the others of the

580
00:25:06,620 --> 00:25:03,750
Fight Club I'm just like I was before

581
00:25:08,450 --> 00:25:06,630
I want to retreat from that because um I

582
00:25:11,270 --> 00:25:08,460
don't want to be involved again with

583
00:25:15,260 --> 00:25:11,280
that well Wow

584
00:25:17,030 --> 00:25:15,270
I mean you just said a talk and I guess

585
00:25:19,790 --> 00:25:17,040
that's one of the topics I really am

586
00:25:22,070 --> 00:25:19,800
most interested in I mean people you

587
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:22,080
have to buy this book I mean if you not

588
00:25:28,930 --> 00:25:26,010
already so tempted then you're listening

589
00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:28,940
to the wrong show because we are

590
00:25:35,870 --> 00:25:32,370
scratching the surface of a much much

591
00:25:37,670 --> 00:25:35,880
broader painting of a landscape which we

592
00:25:41,570 --> 00:25:37,680
don't we can't fill in all the pieces

593
00:25:44,750 --> 00:25:41,580
but at least someone has stepped out

594
00:25:46,790 --> 00:25:44,760
there and has tried to map the territory

595
00:25:48,500 --> 00:25:46,800
you know what I mean because the map

596
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:48,510
isn't the territory but all's were ever

597
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:50,970
going to have our maps and one of the

598
00:25:54,590 --> 00:25:52,770
things that kept coming up for me as you

599
00:25:57,290 --> 00:25:54,600
were talking about that and as I was

600
00:25:59,770 --> 00:25:57,300
preparing for the interview was this

601
00:26:04,340 --> 00:25:59,780
idea of a religion versus spirituality

602
00:26:07,490 --> 00:26:04,350
and it's a that's a huge question for

603
00:26:11,660 --> 00:26:07,500
all time you know but it all sounds so

604
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:11,670
left-hand path ish to me so much of the

605
00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:13,610
stuff that's described in the book

606
00:26:19,730 --> 00:26:17,130
materialism is cool but you know tech is

607
00:26:22,660 --> 00:26:19,740
cool but it's still materialism it's not

608
00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:22,670
consciousness if there is a spirituality

609
00:26:29,570 --> 00:26:26,130
then it's not that I don't think it is

610
00:26:32,660 --> 00:26:29,580
so you know what are your thoughts in

611
00:26:35,180 --> 00:26:32,670
general you laid out some of them

612
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:35,190
but what are we looking at because also

613
00:26:39,740 --> 00:26:36,570
in the book and I can't help but jump

614
00:26:42,170 --> 00:26:39,750
around the book is about a spiritually

615
00:26:45,140 --> 00:26:42,180
transformative experience as well at the

616
00:26:47,450 --> 00:26:45,150
end of the day not even your own but the

617
00:26:50,380 --> 00:26:47,460
one of the key characters in the book

618
00:26:54,170 --> 00:26:50,390
and what are spiritually transformative

619
00:26:58,370 --> 00:26:54,180
experiences tell us about what's going

620
00:27:01,100 --> 00:26:58,380
on is that closer to a real spirituality

621
00:27:03,500 --> 00:27:01,110
is there such a thing as real

622
00:27:06,340 --> 00:27:03,510
spirituality does it make sense to talk

623
00:27:09,860 --> 00:27:06,350
in those terms a lot of people point at

624
00:27:13,310 --> 00:27:09,870
religion particularly Catholicism and

625
00:27:15,590 --> 00:27:13,320
say hey was that ever real spirituality

626
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:15,600
even though there's no doubt that people

627
00:27:21,860 --> 00:27:18,810
who experience spiritual transforming

628
00:27:24,500 --> 00:27:21,870
experiences through it as it you know is

629
00:27:26,390 --> 00:27:24,510
the vehicle but please rescue me here

630
00:27:30,350 --> 00:27:26,400
tell me you should begin to pull that

631
00:27:32,540 --> 00:27:30,360
apart right okay so you're getting at is

632
00:27:36,890 --> 00:27:32,550
this idea is there some kind of

633
00:27:38,150 --> 00:27:36,900
objective reality of what is called you

634
00:27:39,590 --> 00:27:38,160
know when we talk about religious

635
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:39,600
language are we actually talking about

636
00:27:44,180 --> 00:27:41,490
something that's objectively real right

637
00:27:47,330 --> 00:27:44,190
outside of ourselves and if we encounter

638
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:47,340
those things are we are we having

639
00:27:52,340 --> 00:27:49,890
genuine experiences or are we having

640
00:27:54,530 --> 00:27:52,350
subjective experiences right so it's

641
00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:54,540
this kind of problem of other minds it's

642
00:28:00,260 --> 00:27:57,690
called in philosophy and so what I look

643
00:28:02,030 --> 00:28:00,270
at is that and you also mentioned Jeff

644
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:02,040
Piper with respect to this who says that

645
00:28:06,590 --> 00:28:03,810
it's all of us you know it's all kind of

646
00:28:13,580 --> 00:28:06,600
us and I'm actually not of that opinion

647
00:28:17,740 --> 00:28:13,590
and I think that there could be I mean

648
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:17,750
what are religions but experiences that

649
00:28:23,210 --> 00:28:21,210
expand who and what we are you know

650
00:28:25,310 --> 00:28:23,220
Heidegger the one of the philosophers

651
00:28:27,170 --> 00:28:25,320
that I talked about in the book says the

652
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:27,180
age-old philosophical question which is

653
00:28:32,510 --> 00:28:29,930
not asked in philosophy anymore is why

654
00:28:34,970 --> 00:28:32,520
something rather than nothing I mean

655
00:28:37,510 --> 00:28:34,980
once we start to contemplate wow we're

656
00:28:39,860 --> 00:28:37,520
here and that's a little bit strange and

657
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:39,870
so once we start to think about those

658
00:28:44,900 --> 00:28:41,490
things and think about these experiences

659
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:44,910
so okay Jacque valais have made a great

660
00:28:49,570 --> 00:28:46,250
point at the

661
00:28:52,090 --> 00:28:49,580
in 70's when he said regardless of

662
00:28:54,909 --> 00:28:52,100
whether UFOs are real or not there's a

663
00:28:56,799 --> 00:28:54,919
huge belief system around them and

664
00:28:58,810 --> 00:28:56,809
that's why we should study them because

665
00:29:00,490 --> 00:28:58,820
they could be real or they could not be

666
00:29:02,500 --> 00:29:00,500
real it doesn't really matter but we

667
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:02,510
study them anyway Jesus could have

668
00:29:06,220 --> 00:29:04,370
walked on water or he could not have

669
00:29:08,169 --> 00:29:06,230
walked on water it doesn't really matter

670
00:29:10,419 --> 00:29:08,179
because a lot of people believe that he

671
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:10,429
walked on water okay so the belief

672
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:13,370
system exists regardless of their actual

673
00:29:20,260 --> 00:29:17,450
reality of the thing that is the object

674
00:29:23,649 --> 00:29:20,270
of the belief system okay so that being

675
00:29:25,750 --> 00:29:23,659
said I think that we have to then get

676
00:29:27,370 --> 00:29:25,760
into if we're gonna really go down that

677
00:29:30,940 --> 00:29:27,380
field we have to get into some serious

678
00:29:32,350 --> 00:29:30,950
philosophical metaphysics and being the

679
00:29:34,990 --> 00:29:32,360
chair of my department I've had the

680
00:29:36,399 --> 00:29:35,000
honor actually of interviewing we just

681
00:29:38,860 --> 00:29:36,409
hired a met a physician in our

682
00:29:42,190 --> 00:29:38,870
department who's incredibly talented and

683
00:29:45,279 --> 00:29:42,200
I had the honor of hearing the job talks

684
00:29:48,370 --> 00:29:45,289
and research of about four different

685
00:29:50,310 --> 00:29:48,380
young meta physicians he would at the

686
00:29:53,140 --> 00:29:50,320
top of their field and philosophy and

687
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:53,150
every single one of their job talks was

688
00:29:57,370 --> 00:29:55,010
basically saying that there's you know

689
00:29:59,049 --> 00:29:57,380
we get into the physicality and the

690
00:30:00,640 --> 00:29:59,059
objectivity of things are actually just

691
00:30:02,860 --> 00:30:00,650
the physicality of things there's

692
00:30:06,730 --> 00:30:02,870
nothing there so if we're talking about

693
00:30:08,529 --> 00:30:06,740
there's nothing there then but you know

694
00:30:10,630 --> 00:30:08,539
what kind of language do you use to

695
00:30:12,430 --> 00:30:10,640
describe that and each of them you know

696
00:30:15,430 --> 00:30:12,440
their dissertation was basically about

697
00:30:17,380 --> 00:30:15,440
the different languages to describe the

698
00:30:19,630 --> 00:30:17,390
nothingness right and it sounds a lot

699
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:19,640
like Buddhism frankly to me but isn't

700
00:30:24,460 --> 00:30:22,250
that someone a product of the system I

701
00:30:28,799 --> 00:30:24,470
tell you one of my frustrations at this

702
00:30:31,990 --> 00:30:28,809
point is interviewing academics who are

703
00:30:33,970 --> 00:30:32,000
paralyzed by having to talk out of both

704
00:30:37,149 --> 00:30:33,980
sides of their mouth you know like

705
00:30:39,039 --> 00:30:37,159
really really good academics who are on

706
00:30:41,590 --> 00:30:39,049
the cutting edge you say well here's

707
00:30:44,279 --> 00:30:41,600
what I have to say professionally which

708
00:30:48,190 --> 00:30:44,289
fits into this kind of materialistic

709
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:48,200
dialogue and then here's what I

710
00:30:51,820 --> 00:30:50,090
really think about extended

711
00:30:54,639 --> 00:30:51,830
consciousness and all the rest of it you

712
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:54,649
know I passed along to you a couple of

713
00:30:58,330 --> 00:30:56,090
links and I want to kind of bring these

714
00:30:59,860 --> 00:30:58,340
up and and just throw them on the table

715
00:31:03,010 --> 00:30:59,870
because I'm not

716
00:31:04,510 --> 00:31:03,020
totally down with what Jacques Vallee is

717
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:04,520
saying because I think it's somewhat

718
00:31:09,010 --> 00:31:07,250
again another version of the shut up and

719
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:09,020
calculate we can't really know for sure

720
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:13,370
but meanwhile Jacques has the the trace

721
00:31:18,550 --> 00:31:16,250
elements in his rear pocket the same as

722
00:31:20,230 --> 00:31:18,560
you do I don't know how someone can go

723
00:31:22,390 --> 00:31:20,240
and you're not saying this you are

724
00:31:24,220 --> 00:31:22,400
somnath saying this but I don't know how

725
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:24,230
you can walk through that New Mexico

726
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:26,690
desert crash site and find that stuff

727
00:31:30,490 --> 00:31:28,970
and say well maybe there's a reality to

728
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:30,500
all this and maybe there isn't I mean if

729
00:31:35,260 --> 00:31:32,570
you kind of answered that question there

730
00:31:38,170 --> 00:31:35,270
is a physical reality to it the question

731
00:31:40,450 --> 00:31:38,180
is how does that relate to the extended

732
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:40,460
reality of it which we know is real -

733
00:31:45,910 --> 00:31:42,770
because all your religious reports have

734
00:31:48,340 --> 00:31:45,920
chronicled it throughout time let me

735
00:31:50,950 --> 00:31:48,350
throw this on the table so dr. gregory

736
00:31:52,870 --> 00:31:50,960
shushan comes along and he says ok i'm

737
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:52,880
gonna take a fresh look at this first of

738
00:31:56,980 --> 00:31:54,170
all i'm gonna look at the near-death

739
00:31:58,450 --> 00:31:56,990
experience because in a lot of ways the

740
00:31:59,950 --> 00:31:58,460
near-death experience and you're

741
00:32:02,010 --> 00:31:59,960
well-versed and all this stuff so we can

742
00:32:05,620 --> 00:32:02,020
just jump right in the middle of it is

743
00:32:09,130 --> 00:32:05,630
somewhat of a of a clean data set in

744
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:09,140
that we understand at least we think we

745
00:32:14,650 --> 00:32:12,010
understand from a neurological

746
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:14,660
physiological medical standpoint we

747
00:32:17,980 --> 00:32:17,210
understand that consciousness can't be

748
00:32:20,500 --> 00:32:17,990
happening

749
00:32:21,910 --> 00:32:20,510
in that thing that we call brain so

750
00:32:23,740 --> 00:32:21,920
people can get all sideways about

751
00:32:26,500 --> 00:32:23,750
whether you're dead or last gasp of a

752
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:26,510
dying brain but no if you go talk to you

753
00:32:33,370 --> 00:32:30,250
know Sam Varney who's one of the top

754
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:33,380
resuscitation experts physicians in the

755
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:35,810
world he'll say no these people are dead

756
00:32:39,670 --> 00:32:38,090
the brain should not be producing

757
00:32:41,860 --> 00:32:39,680
anything close to what we call

758
00:32:43,270 --> 00:32:41,870
consciousness and yet it is and it's

759
00:32:45,700 --> 00:32:43,280
doing it from the top of the room which

760
00:32:49,210 --> 00:32:45,710
we know at the top of the room looking

761
00:32:51,190 --> 00:32:49,220
down so Andy is real it suggests

762
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:51,200
survival of consciousness again I'm not

763
00:32:56,010 --> 00:32:52,610
saying that this is what every NDE

764
00:32:58,960 --> 00:32:56,020
researcher you know radiation oncologist

765
00:33:01,180 --> 00:32:58,970
cardiologist world-famous dr. PIM family

766
00:33:04,390 --> 00:33:01,190
says that right so gregory shushan comes

767
00:33:06,100 --> 00:33:04,400
along and says hey you know what what

768
00:33:09,460 --> 00:33:06,110
does that have to do with religion and

769
00:33:12,989 --> 00:33:09,470
then he looks at this cross cultural

770
00:33:15,059 --> 00:33:12,999
cross temporal kind of view of all the

771
00:33:17,489 --> 00:33:15,069
religions right as far back as he can go

772
00:33:19,229 --> 00:33:17,499
Egypt Mesopotamia Greece you know the

773
00:33:22,349 --> 00:33:19,239
whole thing and even more modern ones

774
00:33:24,659 --> 00:33:22,359
Buddhism and he says Wow all these

775
00:33:26,789 --> 00:33:24,669
people in one way or another sound like

776
00:33:28,409 --> 00:33:26,799
they're having an NDE now it doesn't fit

777
00:33:30,149 --> 00:33:28,419
perfectly and there's obviously this

778
00:33:31,619 --> 00:33:30,159
cultural overlay and then there's a

779
00:33:33,359 --> 00:33:31,629
social engineering overlay because

780
00:33:35,549 --> 00:33:33,369
religion is used to manipulate and

781
00:33:38,909 --> 00:33:35,559
control people he says but the core of

782
00:33:42,209 --> 00:33:38,919
it is be a good person you will be

783
00:33:45,209 --> 00:33:42,219
judged ultimate love these things come

784
00:33:48,479 --> 00:33:45,219
through and they form religion and that

785
00:33:50,279 --> 00:33:48,489
is a totally different spin I'm not

786
00:33:53,129 --> 00:33:50,289
saying it's true I believe it's true I'm

787
00:33:56,099 --> 00:33:53,139
not saying it's true but that would be a

788
00:33:58,529 --> 00:33:56,109
completely different way of looking at

789
00:34:02,189 --> 00:33:58,539
the religious experience rather than

790
00:34:03,899 --> 00:34:02,199
this kind of you know academic isn't it

791
00:34:05,759 --> 00:34:03,909
crazy that people have these weird

792
00:34:07,229 --> 00:34:05,769
experiences you know why people believe

793
00:34:08,970 --> 00:34:07,239
weird things that's what I always think

794
00:34:10,950 --> 00:34:08,980
of when I think about religious studies

795
00:34:12,569 --> 00:34:10,960
you know they ought to just label it why

796
00:34:15,089 --> 00:34:12,579
people believe weird things because

797
00:34:16,740 --> 00:34:15,099
that's what I hear yeah I also want to

798
00:34:20,220 --> 00:34:16,750
point it out though that you just talked

799
00:34:22,289 --> 00:34:20,230
about both sides of your mouth - like in

800
00:34:24,569 --> 00:34:22,299
academic you said the NDE

801
00:34:26,369 --> 00:34:24,579
I'm not saying it it exists but I

802
00:34:29,430 --> 00:34:26,379
believe it so I mean that's kind of how

803
00:34:32,309 --> 00:34:29,440
we talk - so you know in a sense we

804
00:34:34,529 --> 00:34:32,319
can't help it because we are at a

805
00:34:36,269 --> 00:34:34,539
crossroads in our culture where it's

806
00:34:38,519 --> 00:34:36,279
almost like a paradigm shift right -

807
00:34:42,059 --> 00:34:38,529
kuhnian paradigm shift where on the one

808
00:34:44,399 --> 00:34:42,069
hand we can't prove it in the old way of

809
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:44,409
proving it and on the other hand we

810
00:34:50,039 --> 00:34:46,690
actually can but it were too afraid to

811
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:50,049
say it and so I think that um I think

812
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:52,210
with NDEs I mean I was actually just

813
00:34:56,970 --> 00:34:54,490
talking about this with a couple of

814
00:34:59,039 --> 00:34:56,980
people yesterday about st. Paul you know

815
00:35:00,690 --> 00:34:59,049
who was Saul and then he had this

816
00:35:03,509 --> 00:35:00,700
experience in the Christian tradition

817
00:35:06,180 --> 00:35:03,519
and it looked very much like an NDE

818
00:35:07,859 --> 00:35:06,190
right and so he goes up and did they out

819
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:07,869
of his body into these heavens and he

820
00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:10,690
meets this man of light who then he

821
00:35:14,609 --> 00:35:12,250
believes is Jesus and then he becomes

822
00:35:18,359 --> 00:35:14,619
Paul he changes his name and he has the

823
00:35:20,809 --> 00:35:18,369
classic NDE transformation and then he's

824
00:35:24,210 --> 00:35:20,819
a good person after that right and so

825
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:24,220
yeah I mean I agree with you so are you

826
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:26,050
asking me about

827
00:35:29,910 --> 00:35:28,090
UFO experiences being kind of like any

828
00:35:32,220 --> 00:35:29,920
experiences because I can say something

829
00:35:34,170 --> 00:35:32,230
about that I'm going past that and

830
00:35:37,290 --> 00:35:34,180
asking this question because in the book

831
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:37,300
you devote a chapter to my buddy ray

832
00:35:43,020 --> 00:35:40,090
Hernandez who is you know done some

833
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:43,030
really cool research and I'm always

834
00:35:47,250 --> 00:35:44,890
butting up against fray for folks who

835
00:35:50,940 --> 00:35:47,260
don't remember ray Hernandez has this

836
00:35:53,340 --> 00:35:50,950
incredible experience encounter really

837
00:35:55,350 --> 00:35:53,350
his wife does but he kind of tags along

838
00:35:58,170 --> 00:35:55,360
and it's so cool because it kind of

839
00:36:00,690 --> 00:35:58,180
reminds me of James's experiences ray is

840
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:00,700
walking down the stairs and his wife

841
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:04,450
goes into this like hyper space ball

842
00:36:09,720 --> 00:36:07,450
along with their dog who is dying who is

843
00:36:12,260 --> 00:36:09,730
healed through the process and Ray Goes

844
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:12,270
Down and follows them and then is told

845
00:36:15,510 --> 00:36:15,010
there's nothing going on here go back to

846
00:36:17,550 --> 00:36:15,520
bed

847
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:17,560
and he marches back upstairs and goes

848
00:36:20,940 --> 00:36:19,570
back to bed which suggests you know

849
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:20,950
let's jump ahead in the story we're

850
00:36:25,860 --> 00:36:23,050
talking to a different crowd here et has

851
00:36:28,650 --> 00:36:25,870
this ability to screen our brain and

852
00:36:30,570 --> 00:36:28,660
control consciousness in the same way it

853
00:36:32,490 --> 00:36:30,580
doesn't the tic-tac flight or fighter

854
00:36:33,690 --> 00:36:32,500
pilot thing where it says meet at this

855
00:36:35,340 --> 00:36:33,700
point and no one's supposed to know

856
00:36:37,260 --> 00:36:35,350
where that point is so there's all this

857
00:36:38,970 --> 00:36:37,270
crazy consciousness stuff going on but

858
00:36:41,130 --> 00:36:38,980
this is Wright Hernandez and then break

859
00:36:44,460 --> 00:36:41,140
goes on to do the first academic survey

860
00:36:46,710 --> 00:36:44,470
of et contact and his big takeaway as

861
00:36:48,990 --> 00:36:46,720
guys quit calling them abductions

862
00:36:51,180 --> 00:36:49,000
they're not abductions there are moral

863
00:36:53,460 --> 00:36:51,190
spiritually transformative experiences

864
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:53,470
now your buddy James has something to

865
00:37:00,000 --> 00:36:56,170
say about that and that's I guess the

866
00:37:02,570 --> 00:37:00,010
part that interests me is if we're

867
00:37:06,890 --> 00:37:02,580
talking about a nonhuman intelligence

868
00:37:10,410 --> 00:37:06,900
that has that degree of control

869
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:10,420
certainly we should be very skeptical

870
00:37:16,380 --> 00:37:13,330
when we enter into the spiritually

871
00:37:19,310 --> 00:37:16,390
transformative experience territory but

872
00:37:23,700 --> 00:37:19,320
the first thing I think the answer is as

873
00:37:26,700 --> 00:37:23,710
we map this extended consciousness realm

874
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:26,710
and we say there's this god realm in

875
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:28,570
this heaven realm and that seems to be

876
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:32,890
where NDEs are and then recently there's

877
00:37:39,930 --> 00:37:36,810
been this very pronounced move within

878
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:39,940
certain aspects of the UFO commune

879
00:37:44,579 --> 00:37:42,130
the including Jeff crippled an including

880
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:44,589
way you know with the multiple contact

881
00:37:50,010 --> 00:37:47,650
modalities saying hey no no no it's all

882
00:37:53,190 --> 00:37:50,020
one there's just different ways of

883
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:53,200
contacting and accessing these same

884
00:37:57,779 --> 00:37:55,930
extended realms and I guess I want to

885
00:38:02,370 --> 00:37:57,789
pump the brakes on that a little bit and

886
00:38:05,270 --> 00:38:02,380
say do we know that or do we maybe want

887
00:38:08,190 --> 00:38:05,280
to consider more of a traditional

888
00:38:10,770 --> 00:38:08,200
religious perspective if you will what's

889
00:38:15,029 --> 00:38:10,780
always been tallied is that and say no

890
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:15,039
there is a pure form of that extended

891
00:38:20,130 --> 00:38:17,890
realm where God is

892
00:38:22,980 --> 00:38:20,140
I mean I've framed it up as the question

893
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:22,990
who does et pray to you mentioned you

894
00:38:27,569 --> 00:38:25,210
know in the book you're so open but

895
00:38:30,390 --> 00:38:27,579
you're going into this crash site this

896
00:38:32,339 --> 00:38:30,400
UFO crashed like the next day and you

897
00:38:34,289 --> 00:38:32,349
say I prayed because I didn't know what

898
00:38:35,430 --> 00:38:34,299
was gonna happen and I you know I could

899
00:38:39,329 --> 00:38:35,440
only expect the worst

900
00:38:41,460 --> 00:38:39,339
so you prayed you prayed does et pray

901
00:38:44,779 --> 00:38:41,470
who does he T pray to that's the

902
00:38:49,690 --> 00:38:44,789
question no one's asking that question

903
00:38:54,750 --> 00:38:51,589
[Music]

904
00:38:57,299 --> 00:38:54,760
that's who I that's who I trust believe

905
00:38:58,980 --> 00:38:57,309
me I'm just saying that they did they've

906
00:39:02,880 --> 00:38:58,990
asked that question so brother guy

907
00:39:06,359 --> 00:39:02,890
Consolmagno asks it in his book would

908
00:39:08,490 --> 00:39:06,369
you baptize and ET and you know he says

909
00:39:10,589 --> 00:39:08,500
that he would if she wanted to be

910
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:10,599
baptized I mean even when you read the

911
00:39:17,849 --> 00:39:14,770
Old Testament Hebrew Bible God is

912
00:39:20,849 --> 00:39:17,859
referring to God's self as plural okay

913
00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:20,859
so I always like to go back to Socrates

914
00:39:26,190 --> 00:39:24,250
as you know that the person who was

915
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:26,200
given the honor of the smartest person

916
00:39:30,569 --> 00:39:28,450
is the person who says they knew nothing

917
00:39:33,359 --> 00:39:30,579
so I think we have to approach this with

918
00:39:35,309 --> 00:39:33,369
the perspective of gosh those are all

919
00:39:37,140 --> 00:39:35,319
good questions and we should follow

920
00:39:39,839 --> 00:39:37,150
through on them but I have no

921
00:39:41,069 --> 00:39:39,849
conclusions I've been criticized for it

922
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:41,079
you know well she doesn't give us any

923
00:39:46,230 --> 00:39:44,410
answers well who can you know I mean

924
00:39:47,819 --> 00:39:46,240
who's going to give you an answer yes

925
00:39:49,590 --> 00:39:47,829
there are Martians and there are on Mars

926
00:39:51,450 --> 00:39:49,600
okay no no I

927
00:39:53,730 --> 00:39:51,460
you know I am sorry I can't give that

928
00:39:57,420 --> 00:39:53,740
answer I'm not going to you because I'm

929
00:39:59,280 --> 00:39:57,430
responsible in terms of I'll present

930
00:40:00,990 --> 00:39:59,290
something that I say okay yes this is

931
00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:01,000
the source for it I know this to be true

932
00:40:04,950 --> 00:40:03,250
but within this realm I think what we

933
00:40:07,170 --> 00:40:04,960
have to do is we have to open up our

934
00:40:08,370 --> 00:40:07,180
minds to it I mean I honestly think that

935
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:08,380
were just at the beginning of

936
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:10,930
understanding it and I think that we've

937
00:40:16,650 --> 00:40:13,170
made a shift into the culture in that

938
00:40:18,750 --> 00:40:16,660
people like Robert Bigelow and people

939
00:40:20,910 --> 00:40:18,760
that have you know that means are

940
00:40:23,550 --> 00:40:20,920
believing it and being very open about

941
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:23,560
it now and it's no longer so secretive

942
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:25,930
or stigmatized and that that's a huge

943
00:40:33,030 --> 00:40:30,850
step forward and I also think that I I

944
00:40:35,310 --> 00:40:33,040
have a tradition and I'm a believer in

945
00:40:38,070 --> 00:40:35,320
my tradition now my tradition is not

946
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:38,080
perfect I'm not like if if they knew

947
00:40:41,970 --> 00:40:39,450
what I actually thought I'd get

948
00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:41,980
excommunicated but you know I'm still a

949
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:44,400
cultural Catholic who believes in in

950
00:40:49,410 --> 00:40:47,530
social justice so there are different

951
00:40:52,790 --> 00:40:49,420
types of Catholics just like there are

952
00:40:55,830 --> 00:40:52,800
different types of Buddhists so you know

953
00:40:57,630 --> 00:40:55,840
what can we say let's put it this way

954
00:41:00,390 --> 00:40:57,640
and I'm gonna say I'm not reflecting my

955
00:41:03,300 --> 00:41:00,400
University and I'm not reflecting my

956
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:03,310
boat Oxford you know press you know the

957
00:41:09,090 --> 00:41:06,570
press but if there are these non-human

958
00:41:11,460 --> 00:41:09,100
intelligences there are different sorts

959
00:41:13,860 --> 00:41:11,470
and types of them and this goes back a

960
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:13,870
long way like in my purgatory in the

961
00:41:17,430 --> 00:41:15,370
book that I wrote about purgatory the

962
00:41:19,410 --> 00:41:17,440
one previous to this I go back to about

963
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:19,420
1100 nice and I read some of the

964
00:41:23,670 --> 00:41:21,970
original sources by Aquinas and those

965
00:41:26,370 --> 00:41:23,680
guys and you know they're talking about

966
00:41:30,330 --> 00:41:26,380
planetary intelligences and things like

967
00:41:33,720 --> 00:41:30,340
that and different forms of of non-human

968
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:33,730
intelligences that are spatial they're

969
00:41:38,460 --> 00:41:35,050
they're stellar

970
00:41:40,110 --> 00:41:38,470
okay so they're it's not a new concept

971
00:41:42,810 --> 00:41:40,120
it's been around for a long time I mean

972
00:41:44,820 --> 00:41:42,820
Emanuel Swedenborg wrote a best-seller

973
00:41:48,420 --> 00:41:44,830
in the 1750s called life on other

974
00:41:51,660 --> 00:41:48,430
planets and he was a very intelligent

975
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:51,670
person right and so I think that we

976
00:41:56,070 --> 00:41:53,610
can't just lump it into one category

977
00:41:58,770 --> 00:41:56,080
because there are also of course as you

978
00:42:01,570 --> 00:41:58,780
know like Howard storms NDE was terrible

979
00:42:05,740 --> 00:42:01,580
yeah we just did a whole show

980
00:42:08,830 --> 00:42:05,750
yeah I mean when you say you don't come

981
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:08,840
to any conclusions certainly great you

982
00:42:15,460 --> 00:42:11,410
know you hold to that but your book is

983
00:42:17,020 --> 00:42:15,470
more revealing I think then just about

984
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:17,030
any other book I've read in this field

985
00:42:22,930 --> 00:42:20,450
and in terms of delivering the goods you

986
00:42:25,570 --> 00:42:22,940
do it over and over again the one thing

987
00:42:29,830 --> 00:42:25,580
that I'm left with from the book is that

988
00:42:32,230 --> 00:42:29,840
it forces a complete paradigm shift in

989
00:42:35,170 --> 00:42:32,240
terms of burden of proof the burden of

990
00:42:37,750 --> 00:42:35,180
proof if we accept your book at all and

991
00:42:40,380 --> 00:42:37,760
there's no reason not to it shifts on

992
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:40,390
everything we can no longer talk about

993
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:44,810
whether there is et that's answered if

994
00:42:49,540 --> 00:42:46,490
anyone doesn't believe that the burden

995
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:49,550
of proof is on them we can't ask whether

996
00:42:55,540 --> 00:42:52,570
or not they're traveling in these

997
00:42:59,440 --> 00:42:55,550
unbelievable tech crafts from other

998
00:43:01,270 --> 00:42:59,450
places far away that's answered in your

999
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:01,280
book the burden of proof now shifts to

1000
00:43:04,390 --> 00:43:03,170
someone else and and I'm not saying

1001
00:43:05,890 --> 00:43:04,400
you're making these claims I'm just

1002
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:05,900
saying if someone just follows your

1003
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:09,050
stories they do and I guess I'm asking

1004
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:13,490
similarly to the question of the data

1005
00:43:17,500 --> 00:43:15,770
that comes back and it is relevant to

1006
00:43:21,550 --> 00:43:17,510
your book because it's James

1007
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:21,560
it's James your experience or who has

1008
00:43:27,370 --> 00:43:24,170
been traumatized by the experience and

1009
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:27,380
whose life is not made better because of

1010
00:43:34,090 --> 00:43:29,810
it I mean maybe it is maybe it isn't but

1011
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:34,100
he is very invested in stopping ET

1012
00:43:39,370 --> 00:43:36,410
contact or having the ability to control

1013
00:43:40,990 --> 00:43:39,380
ET contact and I just take it back

1014
00:43:43,210 --> 00:43:41,000
that's my read of the data that's my

1015
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:43,220
pushback on my friend ray Hernandez I

1016
00:43:47,350 --> 00:43:45,290
say just take your survey data of

1017
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:47,360
contact experiences and you have 10 to

1018
00:43:52,540 --> 00:43:50,330
15% that have my lab ok military

1019
00:43:54,190 --> 00:43:52,550
abduction or military presence is part

1020
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:54,200
of the abduction go rid the NDE

1021
00:43:58,030 --> 00:43:56,570
literature go read dr. Jeff long 3,000

1022
00:44:00,760 --> 00:43:58,040
accounts tell me how many my lab

1023
00:44:05,020 --> 00:44:00,770
accounts you found in there zero you

1024
00:44:07,900 --> 00:44:05,030
find none we have to start mapping those

1025
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:07,910
extended realms and I'm frustrated with

1026
00:44:13,570 --> 00:44:10,490
the multiple contact modality thing that

1027
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:13,580
says oh it's all one I'm frustrated with

1028
00:44:16,990 --> 00:44:15,410
Jacques Valley who I love

1029
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:17,000
has been on the show and it's talked

1030
00:44:21,309 --> 00:44:19,490
about a pioneer who's completely you

1031
00:44:22,779 --> 00:44:21,319
know all the respect in the world but

1032
00:44:24,999 --> 00:44:22,789
this whole idea of absurdity

1033
00:44:27,819 --> 00:44:25,009
well he's got it all wrong that you know

1034
00:44:30,220 --> 00:44:27,829
all this stuff is absurd we are from a

1035
00:44:31,809 --> 00:44:30,230
position of absurdity once we realize

1036
00:44:34,599 --> 00:44:31,819
that there is this extended

1037
00:44:36,609 --> 00:44:34,609
consciousness we occupy a very small bit

1038
00:44:39,099 --> 00:44:36,619
of it that's been as my friend Gordon

1039
00:44:41,380 --> 00:44:39,109
white says has been smeared into a 25%

1040
00:44:43,990 --> 00:44:41,390
time-space reality and all the rest of

1041
00:44:45,549 --> 00:44:44,000
it is out there well everything is going

1042
00:44:47,130 --> 00:44:45,559
to look absurd because we're looking

1043
00:44:49,599 --> 00:44:47,140
through the wrong end of the telescope

1044
00:44:52,630 --> 00:44:49,609
but if we are gonna look and we're gonna

1045
00:44:55,180 --> 00:44:52,640
follow the data we got this major divide

1046
00:44:57,579 --> 00:44:55,190
here between what people are reporting

1047
00:45:00,640 --> 00:44:57,589
as god and what people are reporting as

1048
00:45:03,670 --> 00:45:00,650
et and I'm okay if they're the same but

1049
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:03,680
I'm not convinced yeah so there's a

1050
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:05,930
point in the book where we're coming

1051
00:45:11,079 --> 00:45:07,970
back from the site in the very beginning

1052
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:11,089
with James and Tyler and James is kind

1053
00:45:15,700 --> 00:45:12,890
of thinking about it and he's telling me

1054
00:45:17,650 --> 00:45:15,710
about hit you know his research and by

1055
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:17,660
the way part of the reason I prayed that

1056
00:45:24,670 --> 00:45:20,450
night was because James actually showed

1057
00:45:27,370 --> 00:45:24,680
me a presentation he had done about his

1058
00:45:29,230 --> 00:45:27,380
research and it terrified I mean I I

1059
00:45:32,890 --> 00:45:29,240
couldn't sleep that night I had terrible

1060
00:45:35,470 --> 00:45:32,900
dreams in nightmares and so he said you

1061
00:45:38,079 --> 00:45:35,480
know Diana he said if we were doing this

1062
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:38,089
research a hundred years ago we would

1063
00:45:42,849 --> 00:45:41,210
call these angels and demons and I

1064
00:45:45,759 --> 00:45:42,859
thought yeah that would be the framework

1065
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:45,769
for sure because a lot of them are

1066
00:45:50,529 --> 00:45:48,650
pretty nasty and they do nasty things

1067
00:45:53,529 --> 00:45:50,539
now do they do that on purpose

1068
00:45:55,210 --> 00:45:53,539
I don't know and so you know the

1069
00:45:57,279 --> 00:45:55,220
experiences are nasty for a lot of

1070
00:46:00,430 --> 00:45:57,289
people and I think that a lot of people

1071
00:46:01,930 --> 00:46:00,440
won't accept that and you know in

1072
00:46:04,539 --> 00:46:01,940
religious studies we've get this all the

1073
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:04,549
time in fact to UM I tell my students

1074
00:46:08,589 --> 00:46:06,890
there's a time when I'm gonna have my

1075
00:46:10,599 --> 00:46:08,599
blood drawn you know it's my annual

1076
00:46:12,430 --> 00:46:10,609
physical and the nurse and she says so

1077
00:46:15,130 --> 00:46:12,440
what do you do and I saying

1078
00:46:17,109 --> 00:46:15,140
I study religion and she goes do you

1079
00:46:19,839 --> 00:46:17,119
know what I think about religion and I

1080
00:46:21,849 --> 00:46:19,849
say no and she said I think that it's

1081
00:46:25,539 --> 00:46:21,859
all about love and of course I'm

1082
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:25,549
thinking in my head no but you know it's

1083
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:26,490
not

1084
00:46:30,230 --> 00:46:27,930
look have you actually read the books

1085
00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:30,240
there's lots of killing of children and

1086
00:46:33,859 --> 00:46:32,250
you know and since he's just about to

1087
00:46:35,630 --> 00:46:33,869
stick me with the needle to get the

1088
00:46:38,420 --> 00:46:35,640
blood so I just look at her and I say

1089
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:38,430
yep it's all about love right baby you

1090
00:46:42,620 --> 00:46:40,890
know what keep ya argue you know these

1091
00:46:44,930 --> 00:46:42,630
are people who want it to be all about

1092
00:46:47,329 --> 00:46:44,940
love but it's not they want it to be all

1093
00:46:49,250 --> 00:46:47,339
about like cultural evolution and you

1094
00:46:51,349 --> 00:46:49,260
know us all getting along and stuff like

1095
00:46:53,390 --> 00:46:51,359
that but it's a lot more complicated

1096
00:46:55,370 --> 00:46:53,400
than that and I get into the

1097
00:46:58,099 --> 00:46:55,380
complication of it in the last chapter

1098
00:47:01,280 --> 00:46:58,109
with sister Maria abre de of Spain as

1099
00:47:02,990 --> 00:47:01,290
she's a 16th century nun who's she by

1100
00:47:05,329 --> 00:47:03,000
locates which means she can be in two

1101
00:47:07,550 --> 00:47:05,339
places at once like this is the belief

1102
00:47:11,060 --> 00:47:07,560
that she was she believed she was by

1103
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:11,070
locating from her so in Spain to New

1104
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:13,890
Mexico strangely and I've known about

1105
00:47:17,599 --> 00:47:15,690
her but I had not I was there to read

1106
00:47:19,700 --> 00:47:17,609
some of her manuscripts and her first

1107
00:47:22,010 --> 00:47:19,710
book by the way was a cosmography which

1108
00:47:23,210 --> 00:47:22,020
is a kind of scientific analysis of the

1109
00:47:25,339 --> 00:47:23,220
Earth from space

1110
00:47:27,380 --> 00:47:25,349
so she's traveling in space and she sees

1111
00:47:29,630 --> 00:47:27,390
the earth spinning and so she goes to

1112
00:47:33,170 --> 00:47:29,640
New Mexico and she's supposed to

1113
00:47:36,020 --> 00:47:33,180
evangelize that I forgot who MA no

1114
00:47:38,329 --> 00:47:36,030
Indian tribe I think I can't remember

1115
00:47:40,250 --> 00:47:38,339
the exact tribe but I mean they're like

1116
00:47:42,500 --> 00:47:40,260
monuments out to her back if you go to

1117
00:47:44,720 --> 00:47:42,510
New Mexico to these places and so I

1118
00:47:46,250 --> 00:47:44,730
think to myself wow what a really weird

1119
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:46,260
coincidence in fact I call it a

1120
00:47:50,780 --> 00:47:48,210
synchronicity and so I start to think

1121
00:47:52,790 --> 00:47:50,790
about her with respect to Tyler and I

1122
00:47:54,950 --> 00:47:52,800
start to think to myself you know what

1123
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:54,960
that was a pretty horrific thing that

1124
00:48:00,740 --> 00:47:56,970
happened to her because she did not want

1125
00:48:03,770 --> 00:48:00,750
any of her experiences we put into the

1126
00:48:05,660 --> 00:48:03,780
political ends of the Catholic Church in

1127
00:48:07,820 --> 00:48:05,670
Spain to colonize the indigenous

1128
00:48:10,430 --> 00:48:07,830
population but that's exactly how they

1129
00:48:12,050 --> 00:48:10,440
used it and I was thinking you know what

1130
00:48:13,490 --> 00:48:12,060
if they do the same thing to Tyler

1131
00:48:15,530 --> 00:48:13,500
what if they're using him in this way

1132
00:48:17,420 --> 00:48:15,540
and I wrote a big part of the section

1133
00:48:19,430 --> 00:48:17,430
that was edited out completely and

1134
00:48:22,130 --> 00:48:19,440
probably I wasn't able to convey it

1135
00:48:24,470 --> 00:48:22,140
correctly or eloquently and that's why

1136
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:24,480
it was edited out but a few people have

1137
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:27,210
asked me about it not very many but I

1138
00:48:32,810 --> 00:48:29,970
think that you know some people have

1139
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:32,820
said well if you would believe in ET do

1140
00:48:35,420 --> 00:48:34,530
you want them to come and be here and

1141
00:48:37,220 --> 00:48:35,430
I'm thinking no

1142
00:48:39,890 --> 00:48:37,230
because it doesn't you know what Stephen

1143
00:48:42,500 --> 00:48:39,900
Hawking said why would we be advertising

1144
00:48:43,430 --> 00:48:42,510
hey you know advanced civilization come

1145
00:48:46,250 --> 00:48:43,440
get our stuff

1146
00:48:49,010 --> 00:48:46,260
come colonize us you know I mean not a

1147
00:48:51,799 --> 00:48:49,020
good idea so if they're here already of

1148
00:48:53,750 --> 00:48:51,809
course as how are they not here well I

1149
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:53,760
mean I mean this is back to the ancient

1150
00:48:59,990 --> 00:48:56,010
alien things I don't know how we put

1151
00:49:03,589 --> 00:49:00,000
together a story that doesn't have them

1152
00:49:05,299 --> 00:49:03,599
here for a long long time in our past I

1153
00:49:07,370 --> 00:49:05,309
don't know how we really put together a

1154
00:49:10,210 --> 00:49:07,380
story that doesn't have them working

1155
00:49:14,420 --> 00:49:10,220
with us as part of genetic engineering

1156
00:49:17,510 --> 00:49:14,430
kind of program I mean again this is

1157
00:49:20,599 --> 00:49:17,520
where I think American cosmic takes us

1158
00:49:23,720 --> 00:49:20,609
because all this stuff becomes not just

1159
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:23,730
on the table but the burden of proof I

1160
00:49:27,650 --> 00:49:25,650
think shifts you know it's like I always

1161
00:49:30,049 --> 00:49:27,660
remember a Richard double and wrote an

1162
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:30,059
excellent book years ago at this point

1163
00:49:34,309 --> 00:49:32,130
called after disclosure well they've

1164
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:34,319
already begun the disclosure the drip

1165
00:49:39,620 --> 00:49:37,170
drip disclosure you know December 2017

1166
00:49:41,780 --> 00:49:39,630
in the New York Times CBS News Fox News

1167
00:49:43,700 --> 00:49:41,790
you can't get more disclosed than that

1168
00:49:47,569 --> 00:49:43,710
and they're still running the reruns on

1169
00:49:50,180 --> 00:49:47,579
history TV they're disclosing and no

1170
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:50,190
one's asking any questions so I think

1171
00:49:54,530 --> 00:49:51,770
your book brings us to a new level

1172
00:49:57,319 --> 00:49:54,540
American cosmic answers those questions

1173
00:49:59,839 --> 00:49:57,329
but I think it shifts the thing of well

1174
00:50:01,640 --> 00:49:59,849
of course they've been here forever how

1175
00:50:03,829 --> 00:50:01,650
else do you explain how the pyramids are

1176
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:03,839
lined up with the stars and that all the

1177
00:50:09,140 --> 00:50:05,970
ancient tribes say they came from the

1178
00:50:11,660 --> 00:50:09,150
sky I mean all that becomes accepted

1179
00:50:13,849 --> 00:50:11,670
until it's falsified in my opinion I

1180
00:50:16,130 --> 00:50:13,859
mean there's two really different

1181
00:50:20,240 --> 00:50:16,140
interesting ways to take that one is

1182
00:50:21,950 --> 00:50:20,250
that we're being led in the way that you

1183
00:50:23,809 --> 00:50:21,960
know ray Hernandez is walking down the

1184
00:50:27,289 --> 00:50:23,819
stairs and he's told to go back upstairs

1185
00:50:29,809 --> 00:50:27,299
and go to sleep and the other way that

1186
00:50:32,630 --> 00:50:29,819
we're being led is that God is leading

1187
00:50:34,130 --> 00:50:32,640
us in some way and I really want to

1188
00:50:36,410 --> 00:50:34,140
return to that because I'm not a

1189
00:50:37,670 --> 00:50:36,420
religious person you know and and I

1190
00:50:40,579 --> 00:50:37,680
don't know how far you want to go down

1191
00:50:44,310 --> 00:50:40,589
this path but to me I'm talking in

1192
00:50:45,900 --> 00:50:44,320
shorthand here I go do ETS have nd ease

1193
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:45,910
I'm really really talking in Shoreham

1194
00:50:50,340 --> 00:50:47,770
because I feel like I can do it with you

1195
00:50:52,740 --> 00:50:50,350
and the point is that these near-death

1196
00:50:54,720 --> 00:50:52,750
experiences that we're talking to are of

1197
00:50:56,610 --> 00:50:54,730
a different ilk we don't know how or we

1198
00:50:58,740 --> 00:50:56,620
don't know why I'm not saying that but

1199
00:51:01,170 --> 00:50:58,750
I'm saying if you do the content

1200
00:51:04,140 --> 00:51:01,180
analysis on him one these people are

1201
00:51:05,850 --> 00:51:04,150
meeting God consistently again dr.

1202
00:51:08,190 --> 00:51:05,860
Jeffery long who's compiled at largest

1203
00:51:10,380 --> 00:51:08,200
database of it his last book a New York

1204
00:51:12,510 --> 00:51:10,390
Times bestseller he says hey I'm sorry

1205
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:12,520
to report this folks and it's way under

1206
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:14,890
reported by NDE scientists but

1207
00:51:20,340 --> 00:51:17,770
overwhelmingly these people say they're

1208
00:51:22,740 --> 00:51:20,350
meeting God and they're not meeting a

1209
00:51:24,570 --> 00:51:22,750
Christian God or a Buddhist God but

1210
00:51:26,850 --> 00:51:24,580
they're meeting something that they call

1211
00:51:29,490 --> 00:51:26,860
God and he says this seems important

1212
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:29,500
this is more often reported than the

1213
00:51:32,670 --> 00:51:31,330
tunnel is reported yet also we hear

1214
00:51:34,830 --> 00:51:32,680
about as a tunnel we don't hear about

1215
00:51:37,380 --> 00:51:34,840
God and again like I said with the thing

1216
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:37,390
with Ray Hernandez there's no MyLab and

1217
00:51:41,370 --> 00:51:39,010
you mentioned howard storm in the

1218
00:51:43,470 --> 00:51:41,380
hellish NDEs look into the hellish and

1219
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:43,480
E's they're always this kind of

1220
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:46,090
two-sided you're judging yourself you're

1221
00:51:50,490 --> 00:51:48,250
the one keeping yourself in hell God is

1222
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:50,500
always there God is always you know

1223
00:51:54,720 --> 00:51:53,050
follow the light folks I'm not a

1224
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:54,730
religious person I don't have a

1225
00:51:59,310 --> 00:51:57,130
religious agenda I just following the

1226
00:52:02,460 --> 00:51:59,320
data and when I look at the data on the

1227
00:52:03,690 --> 00:52:02,470
other side of ET isn't that clean yes

1228
00:52:05,730 --> 00:52:03,700
people are having spiritually

1229
00:52:07,620 --> 00:52:05,740
transformative experiences and Ray's dog

1230
00:52:10,230 --> 00:52:07,630
is healed but at the same times like

1231
00:52:12,060 --> 00:52:10,240
your buddy James they're saying no this

1232
00:52:14,550 --> 00:52:12,070
is traumatic and other people saying

1233
00:52:15,810 --> 00:52:14,560
that they are the reptilian alien raped

1234
00:52:17,700 --> 00:52:15,820
me again

1235
00:52:20,970 --> 00:52:17,710
there's no stories like that in the NDE

1236
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:20,980
literature I'm pushing for some

1237
00:52:27,210 --> 00:52:24,610
precision here some more granularity

1238
00:52:28,950 --> 00:52:27,220
some drive to understand these extended

1239
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:28,960
consciousness realms and I want to put

1240
00:52:33,240 --> 00:52:30,610
the brakes on a multiple contact

1241
00:52:34,770 --> 00:52:33,250
modality thing like oh it's all seems to

1242
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:34,780
be the same whether you access it

1243
00:52:40,470 --> 00:52:37,090
through spirits and demons or you access

1244
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:40,480
it through ET and DMT or NDE they all

1245
00:52:45,930 --> 00:52:42,490
seem to be going to the same place maybe

1246
00:52:48,150 --> 00:52:45,940
yes maybe no what are you writing so

1247
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:48,160
gosh I mean you know I'm we're going act

1248
00:52:52,380 --> 00:52:50,530
like this is my stranger things t-shirt

1249
00:52:53,250 --> 00:52:52,390
and I don't know if you've seen that no

1250
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:53,260
it's really

1251
00:52:57,359 --> 00:52:55,810
they have the upside down right so are

1252
00:52:58,770 --> 00:52:57,369
these people all going to the upside

1253
00:53:02,760 --> 00:52:58,780
down I mean that's kind of like the

1254
00:53:05,910 --> 00:53:02,770
question right and I'm I don't know I'm

1255
00:53:08,820 --> 00:53:05,920
think so this is why I called James

1256
00:53:10,859 --> 00:53:08,830
master of the multiverse right what if

1257
00:53:12,359 --> 00:53:10,869
there are multi verses and then of

1258
00:53:15,530 --> 00:53:12,369
course you have you know people like

1259
00:53:18,210 --> 00:53:15,540
rizwan farook you are writing about the

1260
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:18,220
simulated realities you know which is

1261
00:53:23,730 --> 00:53:20,530
kind of like a multiverse things too so

1262
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:23,740
I mean there you know what I always say

1263
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:26,650
simulation of what are our hokey tech

1264
00:53:33,720 --> 00:53:30,810
that we have here are Sim City I mean

1265
00:53:38,070 --> 00:53:33,730
that's okay I mean it is a multiverse

1266
00:53:41,970 --> 00:53:38,080
type of model and so I guess my question

1267
00:53:44,580 --> 00:53:41,980
is that well okay remote viewers when

1268
00:53:46,109 --> 00:53:44,590
they go they report something similar to

1269
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:46,119
the oh and I'm just gonna call it the

1270
00:53:49,740 --> 00:53:48,010
upside down you know they report

1271
00:53:52,170 --> 00:53:49,750
something similar to the upside down to

1272
00:53:53,849 --> 00:53:52,180
and you know they go out and they feel

1273
00:53:55,859 --> 00:53:53,859
like they go and they're able to get

1274
00:53:59,220 --> 00:53:55,869
this non-local information and bring it

1275
00:54:00,960 --> 00:53:59,230
back and say what they saw and then NDE

1276
00:54:03,330 --> 00:54:00,970
people you know they go out and they

1277
00:54:07,140 --> 00:54:03,340
also see stuff you know the original

1278
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:07,150
book was it what's his name Richard

1279
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:11,170
moody MIDI yeah I mean I read that when

1280
00:54:15,690 --> 00:54:13,330
I can't I think I was 11 when I read

1281
00:54:18,300 --> 00:54:15,700
that or 12 and that blew me away I was

1282
00:54:20,340 --> 00:54:18,310
like really this happens you know this

1283
00:54:21,510 --> 00:54:20,350
guy went out we actually saw stuff that

1284
00:54:24,030 --> 00:54:21,520
was out there that he could corroborate

1285
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:24,040
so again that's the same kind of thing

1286
00:54:26,820 --> 00:54:25,330
is the remote viewing you know you're

1287
00:54:28,740 --> 00:54:26,830
seeing things that you shouldn't see and

1288
00:54:30,930 --> 00:54:28,750
you're corroborating them into our

1289
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:30,940
reality which by the way there's a

1290
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:34,090
really excellent book by Leslie sylco

1291
00:54:39,690 --> 00:54:36,970
called ceremony which basically is the

1292
00:54:42,599 --> 00:54:39,700
same thing it's about a Vietnam vet who

1293
00:54:44,550 --> 00:54:42,609
comes back and he has PTSD and he's

1294
00:54:45,750 --> 00:54:44,560
trying to get the ceremony of his tribe

1295
00:54:49,050 --> 00:54:45,760
he's a Native American he's trying to

1296
00:54:50,580 --> 00:54:49,060
get this dog I think Lakota but anyway

1297
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:50,590
he's trying to get the ceremony it

1298
00:54:55,380 --> 00:54:52,450
doesn't work for him so he has to go to

1299
00:54:57,960 --> 00:54:55,390
a new ceremony basically that's going to

1300
00:55:00,300 --> 00:54:57,970
heal him and the new ceremony basically

1301
00:55:03,750 --> 00:55:00,310
shows that the vision that he has is

1302
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:03,760
actually corroborated on the outside

1303
00:55:07,910 --> 00:55:05,130
world and

1304
00:55:08,930 --> 00:55:07,920
heals him now what does that mean you

1305
00:55:13,220 --> 00:55:08,940
know there's something pretty profound

1306
00:55:16,010 --> 00:55:13,230
about that and so um you know you've got

1307
00:55:17,990 --> 00:55:16,020
a lot of that going on here and by the

1308
00:55:19,790 --> 00:55:18,000
way that's that's part of the reason I

1309
00:55:22,220 --> 00:55:19,800
wrote the book in the style that I wrote

1310
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:22,230
it in was because I had a list data and

1311
00:55:28,100 --> 00:55:25,650
I said I can't write this data in the

1312
00:55:31,370 --> 00:55:28,110
traditional way of an academic book I

1313
00:55:33,260 --> 00:55:31,380
just can't do it so I went to a couple

1314
00:55:34,940 --> 00:55:33,270
different presses and they wanted me to

1315
00:55:37,460 --> 00:55:34,950
change it they said you can't write it

1316
00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:37,470
like this and I thought well I can't

1317
00:55:41,660 --> 00:55:38,730
write it like that either

1318
00:55:43,940 --> 00:55:41,670
so my wonderful editor at Oxford she

1319
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:43,950
said Diana write it in any way that you

1320
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:46,050
think the data will come out and so I

1321
00:55:52,220 --> 00:55:48,450
did and she helped me you know she

1322
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:52,230
edited it so if it was cleaned up and I

1323
00:55:58,850 --> 00:55:54,570
think that it that story which by the

1324
00:56:01,070 --> 00:55:58,860
way another audio toast Walt who is a

1325
00:56:03,350 --> 00:56:01,080
professor of religion at Appalachian

1326
00:56:05,690 --> 00:56:03,360
State University he basically said this

1327
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:05,700
is the hero's journey and I thought wow

1328
00:56:08,630 --> 00:56:08,370
it is and I hadn't it hadn't occurred to

1329
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:08,640
me

1330
00:56:19,310 --> 00:56:16,610
basically said do you think that

1331
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:19,320
information at a very symbolic an

1332
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:21,570
unconscious level is passed on through

1333
00:56:25,850 --> 00:56:23,970
us through the hero's journey because

1334
00:56:27,890 --> 00:56:25,860
look at Star Wars you know Star Wars

1335
00:56:30,230 --> 00:56:27,900
like has changed our language even and

1336
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:30,240
you know if idioms from Star Wars that

1337
00:56:33,590 --> 00:56:31,890
people all over the world and there's

1338
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:33,600
also you know I write about it in my

1339
00:56:38,810 --> 00:56:35,970
book there's this idea that Star Wars is

1340
00:56:40,670 --> 00:56:38,820
real right I mean it's really this very

1341
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:40,680
interesting kind of thing where the

1342
00:56:44,930 --> 00:56:43,170
stories we write become the reality we

1343
00:56:46,790 --> 00:56:44,940
live I do want to emphasize that last

1344
00:56:48,770 --> 00:56:46,800
point because people another reason you

1345
00:56:50,750 --> 00:56:48,780
have to read this book it's it's

1346
00:56:52,850 --> 00:56:50,760
beautifully written and it just brings

1347
00:56:54,650 --> 00:56:52,860
you along these stories you actually

1348
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:54,660
cover this point and it's pretty

1349
00:56:59,690 --> 00:56:56,610
remarkable and the way that you do it is

1350
00:57:02,380 --> 00:56:59,700
that you are now living an x-files

1351
00:57:04,730 --> 00:57:02,390
reality and you call into question

1352
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:04,740
whether or not you would have lived that

1353
00:57:10,340 --> 00:57:08,130
reality if x-files was never created

1354
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:10,350
which is kind of an interesting thought

1355
00:57:16,220 --> 00:57:12,690
the one last thing I did want to talk

1356
00:57:18,170 --> 00:57:16,230
about is how can people find this book

1357
00:57:18,609 --> 00:57:18,180
it's on Amazon you can get for Kindle

1358
00:57:20,499 --> 00:57:18,619
very

1359
00:57:22,870 --> 00:57:20,509
reasonable price can even get a hard

1360
00:57:24,249 --> 00:57:22,880
copy at a very very reasonable price and

1361
00:57:26,849 --> 00:57:24,259
they were sold out for the longest time

1362
00:57:29,769 --> 00:57:26,859
so people need to take advantage of that

1363
00:57:31,839 --> 00:57:29,779
so tell us about where they can get the

1364
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:31,849
book and also what projects you're

1365
00:57:37,239 --> 00:57:33,410
working on which we haven't even touched

1366
00:57:39,700 --> 00:57:37,249
on all the tech stuff and where AI might

1367
00:57:41,859 --> 00:57:39,710
be taking us and how all that fits in so

1368
00:57:44,469 --> 00:57:41,869
there's so much more to talk about but

1369
00:57:47,739 --> 00:57:44,479
I'd love for you to tell us how people

1370
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:47,749
can connect with you sure so the idea of

1371
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:50,210
a website called American cosmic comm

1372
00:57:56,410 --> 00:57:53,930
and what I try to do there i I'm trying

1373
00:57:58,390 --> 00:57:56,420
to keep it up but I've I've been so busy

1374
00:58:00,339 --> 00:57:58,400
once the book came out that I haven't

1375
00:58:01,989 --> 00:58:00,349
been able to update it but I'm updating

1376
00:58:04,329 --> 00:58:01,999
it with a lot of different things like

1377
00:58:07,870 --> 00:58:04,339
some producers are interested in doing

1378
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:07,880
some type of TV series around it and so

1379
00:58:12,219 --> 00:58:10,130
we're we're kind of talking about doing

1380
00:58:14,620 --> 00:58:12,229
that I have another book that I'm

1381
00:58:16,630 --> 00:58:14,630
considering doing which is called the

1382
00:58:19,809 --> 00:58:16,640
language of angels where I talk about

1383
00:58:21,099 --> 00:58:19,819
how synchronicity fits into this all and

1384
00:58:23,140 --> 00:58:21,109
it's kind of like the engine of

1385
00:58:25,029 --> 00:58:23,150
religious belief and religion and

1386
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:25,039
spiritualities and even New Age

1387
00:58:32,709 --> 00:58:27,410
spirituality I also have an ongoing

1388
00:58:34,539 --> 00:58:32,719
project with the Vatican about the you

1389
00:58:38,499 --> 00:58:34,549
know kind of going back into the Vatican

1390
00:58:40,239 --> 00:58:38,509
and looking at some of those sources but

1391
00:58:43,989 --> 00:58:40,249
you know quote unquote angel encounters

1392
00:58:45,849 --> 00:58:43,999
and actually doing the analyses of them

1393
00:58:48,489 --> 00:58:45,859
from their language kind of dunno

1394
00:58:50,890 --> 00:58:48,499
literal analysis an end of contextual

1395
00:58:52,509 --> 00:58:50,900
analysis side by side so I've got like a

1396
00:58:55,839 --> 00:58:52,519
bunch of different projects that I'm

1397
00:58:58,029 --> 00:58:55,849
doing so I'm fairly busy doing all of

1398
00:58:59,829 --> 00:58:58,039
that and I do want to update my American

1399
00:59:03,069 --> 00:58:59,839
cosmic website because people keep going

1400
00:59:05,259 --> 00:59:03,079
there and and it's been the same for a

1401
00:59:07,059 --> 00:59:05,269
long time and I and I want to bring that

1402
00:59:09,009 --> 00:59:07,069
information because a lot of things have

1403
00:59:11,620 --> 00:59:09,019
happened and the last thing I wanted to

1404
00:59:14,019 --> 00:59:11,630
say was you could get it on the oxford

1405
00:59:16,239 --> 00:59:14,029
university press website you could get

1406
00:59:20,259 --> 00:59:16,249
it at Barnes & Noble you could get it at

1407
00:59:22,959 --> 00:59:20,269
Amazon and I there there's an audio

1408
00:59:26,079 --> 00:59:22,969
version but that's not me speaking and I

1409
00:59:26,980 --> 00:59:26,089
am gonna do an audio first chapter and

1410
00:59:28,660 --> 00:59:26,990
I'm going

1411
00:59:29,980 --> 00:59:28,670
I hope some of my friends are gonna help

1412
00:59:31,450 --> 00:59:29,990
me put it up on their site and if you

1413
00:59:33,670 --> 00:59:31,460
want to put it up on yours you can't you

1414
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:33,680
so I'm gonna do that too because I think

1415
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:37,010
that um I want to say some things in in

1416
00:59:41,140 --> 00:59:39,410
that audio version it's just not going

1417
00:59:43,060 --> 00:59:41,150
to be an audio version but it's gonna be

1418
00:59:44,770 --> 00:59:43,070
you know me also saying a couple things

1419
00:59:48,100 --> 00:59:44,780
about it and what's happened since then

1420
00:59:51,010 --> 00:59:48,110
so yeah so that's where I'm at right now

1421
00:59:52,860 --> 00:59:51,020
and I have to admit I'm also recovering

1422
00:59:56,530 --> 00:59:52,870
from doing that book

1423
00:59:58,990 --> 00:59:56,540
we certainly do hope there's more coming

1424
01:00:00,780 --> 00:59:59,000
it's absolutely again a whole different

1425
01:00:05,140 --> 01:00:00,790
world that you're opening up to us and

1426
01:00:07,270 --> 01:00:05,150
we want to know more about it so thank

1427
01:00:09,580 --> 01:00:07,280
you so much diana for joining me today

1428
01:00:12,310 --> 01:00:09,590
on skeptic oh and i certainly encourage

1429
01:00:14,890 --> 01:00:12,320
everyone to check out your amazing book

1430
01:00:19,630 --> 01:00:14,900
american cosmic thanks so much Alex I

1431
01:00:21,010 --> 01:00:19,640
had a great time talking with you so

1432
01:00:22,660 --> 01:00:21,020
thanks for watching this video

1433
01:00:24,850 --> 01:00:22,670
but there's more videos out there as

1434
01:00:26,650 --> 01:00:24,860
well but please check out the skeptical

1435
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:26,660
website you can see it here we cover a

1436
01:00:29,980 --> 01:00:28,010
lot of different stuff you might be

1437
01:00:33,070 --> 01:00:29,990
interested in we relating to

1438
01:00:36,130 --> 01:00:33,080
controversial science and spirituality a

1439
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:36,140
lot of shows up there over 350 of them

1440
01:00:42,030 --> 01:00:38,570
or so all free all available for